"The fabricated world currently fraying was designed to keep us in a frequency of fear and smallness where we are easily controlled. We know that now. Staying above that, insisting on love and life and fearlessly saying no when needed, grows us bigger and remains our best way forward...." It is so important to hold that principle of 'insisting on love and life and fearlessly saying no when needed' as we confront the control mechanisms being constructed and put in place to enslave us-- and saying NO is one of the most fundamental necessities in this time of many destructive forces, cruel intentions and seductive temptations.... We are in a time of life and death, good and evil paths in the road...
Hi Kathleen, I shook my head in agreement so many times while reading your piece. I've had the same weirdly disturbed sleep where I often ended up outside looking up at the stars. I almost never do this because I treasure sleeping so very much. :) Writing seems stalled although there's no shortage of messages from The Voice. The eclipses are approaching... 😳
I have that same set of Runes but have never really delved into them. I will have to reach into that velvet bag and see what they have to say.
I forgot that you also live in New England. It's surreal how exquisite the weather is while the drama rages on in the world. This morning I sat with Sweet Fern in an area ravaged by clear cutting. I'm learning so much about her and why she is there.
This is a beautiful piece with so many things to ponder. Thank you, Dear Kathleen. XOXO
P.S. I love this blue background so much! Makes me want to get back to painting.
My plan for today is to buckle down and write about Sweet Fern. I just got back from visiting her again. My oh my...so magical! It's hard to stay inside on days like today. Maybe I'll write outside - now there's a novel ideal...duh! :) Enjoy this beautiful weather, my friend! XOXO
It appears to me that you have learned how to decode the abstract language of the universe and understand its meaning. Very curious to know what your second draw of ruins says. I would say “happy transforming” but the experience is really only enjoyable in retrospect, so I’ll opt for “profound transforming” and just a reminder that every tiny little evolution that happens to you, Kathleen, (or to me or to any individual) echoes through the morphic field lifting humanity into its next phase.
I see that humanity is moving away from the limited linear logic of the left brain dominated system into more of a balance between the hemispheres. The right brain sees the whole and this is how many of us were able to not be fooled by the bullshit fed to us.
"9 The mistake that is made by many traditional philosophers, he suggests, is to believe that freeing one’s attention up in this way necessitates turning one’s back on practical life, rather than, in fact, embracing it.60 ‘One should act like a man of thought’, he wrote, in a memorable formulation, ‘and think like a man of action. "
-Ian McGilchrist from The Matter with Things
From chapter 4 of Ian McGilchrist 's book The Matter with Things:
"One related difference between right and left prefrontal cortex activation is that the left dominates where belief bias points to the correct conclusion, and, by contrast, the right dominates where it does not.260 Belief bias is in fact generally associated with the left hemisphere, not with the right hemisphere.261"
Also chapter 4
"To put it crudely, the right hemisphere is our bullshit detector. It is better at avoiding nonsense when asked to believe it, but it is also better at avoiding falling prey to local prejudice and just dismissing rational argument because the argument does not happen to agree with that prejudice"
"I see that humanity is moving away from the limited linear logic of the left brain dominated system into more of a balance between the hemispheres. " I so agree and I suspect that imbalance has a lot to do with the intentional hijacking of our consensus reality, which makes less sense all the time.
I love that BS detector reference. So true. Often I find myself having to cognitively catch up with what I already just know in my being. I'm fortunate for having a mother who encouraged that kind of knowing and kept an open dialog around it. At this juncture in time, I see it was a major advantage.
I'm so happy to have your intuition in my life, Kathleen. I feel that you're in touch with something mystical and true, an undercurrent beneath the surface. It does feel like a shift in time where destiny should be reconsidered. I had a dream something like that before I woke this morning. If you choose to share your new reading, I'll look forward to it.
And I'm happy to have your searing intellect in mine. Coupled with your gracious heart and generous orienting belief that all people are good, they are corrupted by corrupt systems.
Thank you. I make no claims - just bumbling through like everyone! We all have our strengths and we clearly all need each other reflecting them into some un-contained whole.
Not sure when I'll recast my DP, though if I do a post, will include the old one too.
Best to you, Tereza. Hope you're enjoying being back east where the weather has been so kind. And I'm more than 2/3 done with your book - oh my! what an education. Taken off track with some awful training on Medicare for my very PT job. I look forward to getting back to it. So well done.
Sep 15·edited Sep 16Liked by Kathleen Devanney. A human.
Hi Kathleen.
During most of this great read, I was flitting back and forth to undergrad days when I was first beginning to realize that philosophical thinkers tend to fall into two, usually opposing types of temperaments ... those who must find or make some kind of irreducible and unquestioned structure to stand on (for example, a particular religion, or some kind of scientifically justified reductionism) ... and those who see structures as merely resting points of provisional epiphenomenon floating on a more fundamental, never-ending stream of process (often expressed with that Taoist, go-with-the-flow thingy).
Rob's reference to Ian McGilchrest's book follows a similar path, one I had found in Jill Bolte Taylor's great TED talk about her massive left hemisphere stroke, and what that loss left her with.
But those Morning Glories also triggered a musical memory from about that same time in my life ... a Lee Ritenour guitar riff in "Morning Glory" (in retrospect, prefer his later, smooth-jazz version with Kenya Hathaway). But even more apt, would be music I would discover a few years later in the group "Oregon", particularly their debut album "Out of the Woods". I might have shared this with you before, but something I will listen to again as I drift off, deep in this rainy summer night of Japan ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn7xcUdVd0A
I'm in that 2nd camp too. To philosophize a bit ... I've noticed those temperaments (behavior patterns?) seem to be common to all domains.
For example, that musical piece by Oregon tends to straddle two approaches to music ... one that favors more institutionally or culturally sanctioned structure (modern chamber music), and one that is more improvisational (jazz) which is a lot like Jill Bollte Taylor's right brain — erasing the boundary between self and other, past and future.
A lot of what passes for "education" appears to be a steering of fundamentally unknowable and uncontrollable processes of empathetic growth towards socially normalized and approved structures.
While the process of creativity — painting, writing, making music, scientific inquiry, community problem solving, etc. — can not be easily imitated (though some psychopaths try), the structures, consumable products, and organizations which can be extracted can more easily be imitated and scaled up. Those structures are the leverage that clever opportunists use to impose their will upon others, and capitalize on that control.
The history of popular music seems to be this same story. Few truly creative artists can receive fair compensation for their work. But there are many who never venture to the riverbank, much less participate in the creative flow. They can not create anything of love or beauty, so they tend to gravitate towards trying to control (manage) the creative process of others, pausing the flow of the river just long enough to take a snapshot, reduce it to a consumable product, 'manage' the product, and extract a profit.
The same relationship seems to crop up between science as a creative problem solving process, and the medical industrial complex. Or governance of, by, and for the people — and the deep-state.
Though I am loathe to give it a name lest it be reduced to just another tribal structure, I guess this underlies why I tend to identify with "pro-social anarchists".
Pro-social in that I think a continual process of empathizing alone is enough to hold families and small groups (Dunbar's number or less) together. Anarchist in that some families and small communities, and all large groups tend to replace empathetic processes with structures stripped of the process of empathizing ... customs, manners, rituals, rules, laws, algorithms. Those who are adept at the latter tend to be unwilling or unable to engage in the creative process of empathy — cluster B personality types (dark triads).
Another example of this is how the irredeemably corrupt attempt to manage others through the WHO. One of their first rules — which has nothing to do with serving others or empathy — was to exempt themselves from legal responsibility for their own behavior. Another is to further game their own self-empowerment through "silence as consent", and use the media to ensure few are even aware of what to raise their voice against.
But rather than the political solution of Jimmy Dore, I tend to waver between the sentiment of Chris Hedges at 7:40, and irrational hope — like the babies and dogs of Mary's latest poem.
Though his methods are questionable, maybe Ted Kaczynski had a point. The current social norm of "progress" is ultimately self-destructive. Personal integrity and identifying with an empathetic flow more fundamental than social norms is our only hope in this forever war of mankind against its own worst nature. But, (sighing) that doesn't pay the rent.
What a great insight here -and so beautifully and succinctly expressed. I want to copy it and send it along to so many people. You've really honed in on the 'nut' of what we're dealing with - and how it shows up in every domain of life.
"Pro-social in that I think a continual process of empathizing alone is enough to hold families and small groups (Dunbar's number or less) together. Anarchist in that some families and small communities, and all large groups tend to replace empathetic processes with structures stripped of the process of empathizing ... customs, manners, rituals, rules, laws, algorithms. Those who are adept at the latter tend to be unwilling or unable to engage in the creative process of empathy — cluster B personality types (dark triads)."
I agree on the empathy piece and see it as a quality that only shows up when you are keeping your heart, your humanity open, recognizing the underlying truth of our shared vulnerability. Something unseen yet quite real - a substance - flows via empathy. Maybe connected to the suchness or essential content of love/life itself.
It's a quality that in undistorted contexts is fully natural and would be encouraged and developed in a genuinely free world.
I like Chris Hedges and Jimmy Dore, though I don't think hope is ever irrational even if it includes irrationality. If we find ourselves at the doorstep of hopelessness, it's likely an identity that needs to let go.
It's a crazy world and we don't have the zoom-out perspective required to assess what's going on. Bigger and deeper forces at work.
Getting out of our way is part of it, not being sucked in to the current consensus-reality, is part of it. (Hedges) Having enough humility to let go of what we think has to happen and open to what we can't yet imagine.
The empathy piece is like a marker of sanity in an insane world. A foundation of 'real' in the synthetic.
Massive reorientation afoot. I'm expecting a lot of difficulty and I'm expecting a lot of breakthroughs along with surprises on both ends of the spectrum. Deeply hopeful.
A world is coming that will honor empathy over money, connection over systems; Nature will be actually revered and this long-dark period will fade. IDK how that happens, how long it takes, but I know insisting on elevating those remarkable human qualities - creativity and care - is essential to its emergence.
I know without knowing how I know. And, while I don't need to convince anyone else of that - I suspect many of us showed up for this exact time.
(Hedges and Dore included. )
Thank you Steve, sincerely, for the comments and framing that I always find so valuable and open dialog up.
"I know without knowing how I know. And, while I don't need to convince anyone else of that - I suspect many of us showed up for this exact time."
Should have added here - not sitting quite right - that 'know' is not the same as certain and is still subject to discovering I was wrong. "Know" as personal stepping stone in that it's essential (even if ultimately incorrect) to move forward. If that makes sense. It's more about trusting those inner impulses in the moment, while still recognizing they are subject to revision down the line.
Sep 16·edited Sep 17Liked by Kathleen Devanney. A human.
Hi Kathleen.
Couldn't sleep, but the return to things I've been wrestling with since undergrad left me too exhausted to immediately jump back into the dialog with you. Will get to that a bit later, but I also need to get back to a chat with Mary ... and hoping she finds this particular message because it ties the both of your posts together so nicely. Not anything by me, but by a video that popped up in my feed.
I remember reading "Gödel, Esscher, and Bach" back in those undergrad days ... and though I am no mathematician, I must have gotten ahold of it only within a couple of years after its publication.
In thinking about some of the ideas we've been tossing back and forth, I think one reason I am drawn to processes as more fundamental than structures is because of the explanation laid out by Hofstadter in this interview. It was also about that time I was struggling with the Tractaus, and like you, unconsciously knowing that there was something to the round-about way he reached his "ladder", but without really understanding the language or structures he was using. It's as if Wittgenstein, Gödel, and Hofstadter were making the case for empathetic process by pointing out the inevitable contradictions of any structure.
Anyway, will leave you with the video ... far more sensible than anything I could explain to myself — and I guess it was self-reference which prompted me go on that philosophical hike in our dialogue. I have GOT to learn from you and Mary how to tame, if not master structures, rather than continually harping on about their weakness. Good night, and I hope you enjoy the video as much as I did.
So enjoyed the video with Hofstadter. And no, have not read the book, thank you for the link.
Loved hearing him say that self-reference is inevitable.
And thought of Clif High's recent reference to 'gritologists' as an entire paradigm on its way out.
I think, of course, it would have to go - the whole notion of attempting to reduce complex reality to 'grit' has been not only a sham, but part of larger attempt to eliminate the mystery and miraculous from life and, importantly (when attempting to control humanity) reduce humans down to their physical parts. If we are just 'parts' then what's the big deal in upgrading them with chips? or swapping them out for new parts to change our gender?
As if.
I will re-listen to the video and plan on checking out the book. I definitely appreciate you and your comments. Hope you slept.
He’s doing his best to be hurtful right now…………it sucks. Apparently he is planning to live in a shed on his girlfriend’s parent’s farm this winter. I hope it’s a cold one. Never thought he’d be the one to turn on me. Absolutely the last thing I ever expected out of him.
People used to ask each other at work; How are you doing today? My answer, whenever appropriate, was to say; Oh man, things are going really good, so, well- I'm a bit anxious about what might come next. I have seen the track record of people versus reality. Embracing discomfort makes for solutions whereas comfort, as a value at any rate, makes for laziness. (Laziness is an issue for me, so I might be trying to remind myself to work on it.)
I find so much peace in your words, Kathleen. You speak for so many of us who are experiencing the deep discomfort of internal change alongside the concomitant transformation of our external world. Of course those two would be related, but it's so easy to forget that -- and your gentle, straightforward description is a calming reminder, a balm to my whole being. Thank you, dear soul. xox
This is so interesting, Kathleen. Please tell us more. I agree with Tereza that you seem to be in touch with something both above and beneath the surface of our everyday lives, and it's become more noticeable of late.
Thanks, Kathleen. Of course, I still very much appreciate your sense of humor, so don't hold back on that! It might be a good complement to the rest of what's going on. Just sayin'.
"The fabricated world currently fraying was designed to keep us in a frequency of fear and smallness where we are easily controlled. We know that now. Staying above that, insisting on love and life and fearlessly saying no when needed, grows us bigger and remains our best way forward...." It is so important to hold that principle of 'insisting on love and life and fearlessly saying no when needed' as we confront the control mechanisms being constructed and put in place to enslave us-- and saying NO is one of the most fundamental necessities in this time of many destructive forces, cruel intentions and seductive temptations.... We are in a time of life and death, good and evil paths in the road...
~ Ginger Breggin
Yes, agree with you Ginger! I have faith we'll get through it. Love triumphs.
Thanks for reading and commenting. Best to you and Peter.
Hi Kathleen, I shook my head in agreement so many times while reading your piece. I've had the same weirdly disturbed sleep where I often ended up outside looking up at the stars. I almost never do this because I treasure sleeping so very much. :) Writing seems stalled although there's no shortage of messages from The Voice. The eclipses are approaching... 😳
I have that same set of Runes but have never really delved into them. I will have to reach into that velvet bag and see what they have to say.
I forgot that you also live in New England. It's surreal how exquisite the weather is while the drama rages on in the world. This morning I sat with Sweet Fern in an area ravaged by clear cutting. I'm learning so much about her and why she is there.
This is a beautiful piece with so many things to ponder. Thank you, Dear Kathleen. XOXO
P.S. I love this blue background so much! Makes me want to get back to painting.
HI Barbara! Why am I surprised you are experiencing something similar? :-) And yes, same here, I don't abandon my bed happily.
Exquisite indeed. My favorite September EVER! Every day has been a gift.
I would love to learn what you've learned from the Sweet Fern. Maybe you'll post something?
Thank you for reading, for relating! and commenting, New England neighbor. XOXO
My plan for today is to buckle down and write about Sweet Fern. I just got back from visiting her again. My oh my...so magical! It's hard to stay inside on days like today. Maybe I'll write outside - now there's a novel ideal...duh! :) Enjoy this beautiful weather, my friend! XOXO
I look forward to reading about her! Thank you - it's is heavenly.
It does my heart good to know how much you are enjoying it.🌿🍁❤️
It appears to me that you have learned how to decode the abstract language of the universe and understand its meaning. Very curious to know what your second draw of ruins says. I would say “happy transforming” but the experience is really only enjoyable in retrospect, so I’ll opt for “profound transforming” and just a reminder that every tiny little evolution that happens to you, Kathleen, (or to me or to any individual) echoes through the morphic field lifting humanity into its next phase.
So true, Tonika, we are shaping that field as we go.
I'm curious too. Hasn't felt the right moment yet, and I'm enjoying a lull in the action.
Thanks for comment, hope you're super-duper good and having fun! xoxo
I’m hanging out with Mathew and Margaret! Feeling great! 😘 😘 😘
What fabulous company, you three. Enjoy! 😘
I see that humanity is moving away from the limited linear logic of the left brain dominated system into more of a balance between the hemispheres. The right brain sees the whole and this is how many of us were able to not be fooled by the bullshit fed to us.
"9 The mistake that is made by many traditional philosophers, he suggests, is to believe that freeing one’s attention up in this way necessitates turning one’s back on practical life, rather than, in fact, embracing it.60 ‘One should act like a man of thought’, he wrote, in a memorable formulation, ‘and think like a man of action. "
-Ian McGilchrist from The Matter with Things
From chapter 4 of Ian McGilchrist 's book The Matter with Things:
"One related difference between right and left prefrontal cortex activation is that the left dominates where belief bias points to the correct conclusion, and, by contrast, the right dominates where it does not.260 Belief bias is in fact generally associated with the left hemisphere, not with the right hemisphere.261"
Also chapter 4
"To put it crudely, the right hemisphere is our bullshit detector. It is better at avoiding nonsense when asked to believe it, but it is also better at avoiding falling prey to local prejudice and just dismissing rational argument because the argument does not happen to agree with that prejudice"
"I see that humanity is moving away from the limited linear logic of the left brain dominated system into more of a balance between the hemispheres. " I so agree and I suspect that imbalance has a lot to do with the intentional hijacking of our consensus reality, which makes less sense all the time.
I love that BS detector reference. So true. Often I find myself having to cognitively catch up with what I already just know in my being. I'm fortunate for having a mother who encouraged that kind of knowing and kept an open dialog around it. At this juncture in time, I see it was a major advantage.
Thank you the thoughtful comment, Rob. Best.
I'm so happy to have your intuition in my life, Kathleen. I feel that you're in touch with something mystical and true, an undercurrent beneath the surface. It does feel like a shift in time where destiny should be reconsidered. I had a dream something like that before I woke this morning. If you choose to share your new reading, I'll look forward to it.
And I'm happy to have your searing intellect in mine. Coupled with your gracious heart and generous orienting belief that all people are good, they are corrupted by corrupt systems.
Thank you. I make no claims - just bumbling through like everyone! We all have our strengths and we clearly all need each other reflecting them into some un-contained whole.
Not sure when I'll recast my DP, though if I do a post, will include the old one too.
Best to you, Tereza. Hope you're enjoying being back east where the weather has been so kind. And I'm more than 2/3 done with your book - oh my! what an education. Taken off track with some awful training on Medicare for my very PT job. I look forward to getting back to it. So well done.
Thank you so much, Kathleen!
Hi Kathleen.
During most of this great read, I was flitting back and forth to undergrad days when I was first beginning to realize that philosophical thinkers tend to fall into two, usually opposing types of temperaments ... those who must find or make some kind of irreducible and unquestioned structure to stand on (for example, a particular religion, or some kind of scientifically justified reductionism) ... and those who see structures as merely resting points of provisional epiphenomenon floating on a more fundamental, never-ending stream of process (often expressed with that Taoist, go-with-the-flow thingy).
Rob's reference to Ian McGilchrest's book follows a similar path, one I had found in Jill Bolte Taylor's great TED talk about her massive left hemisphere stroke, and what that loss left her with.
But those Morning Glories also triggered a musical memory from about that same time in my life ... a Lee Ritenour guitar riff in "Morning Glory" (in retrospect, prefer his later, smooth-jazz version with Kenya Hathaway). But even more apt, would be music I would discover a few years later in the group "Oregon", particularly their debut album "Out of the Woods". I might have shared this with you before, but something I will listen to again as I drift off, deep in this rainy summer night of Japan ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn7xcUdVd0A
G'night ...
How fascinating on the two temperaments - you defined a fuzzy question I've had. I'm clearly in the second camp.
I loved that TED talk, and did read the book after seeing it.
Of course, music would come up for you, Steve! I just listened to "Out of the Woods' how lovely.
Hope you're sleeping well. Happy dreams.
Hi Kathleen.
I'm in that 2nd camp too. To philosophize a bit ... I've noticed those temperaments (behavior patterns?) seem to be common to all domains.
For example, that musical piece by Oregon tends to straddle two approaches to music ... one that favors more institutionally or culturally sanctioned structure (modern chamber music), and one that is more improvisational (jazz) which is a lot like Jill Bollte Taylor's right brain — erasing the boundary between self and other, past and future.
A lot of what passes for "education" appears to be a steering of fundamentally unknowable and uncontrollable processes of empathetic growth towards socially normalized and approved structures.
While the process of creativity — painting, writing, making music, scientific inquiry, community problem solving, etc. — can not be easily imitated (though some psychopaths try), the structures, consumable products, and organizations which can be extracted can more easily be imitated and scaled up. Those structures are the leverage that clever opportunists use to impose their will upon others, and capitalize on that control.
The history of popular music seems to be this same story. Few truly creative artists can receive fair compensation for their work. But there are many who never venture to the riverbank, much less participate in the creative flow. They can not create anything of love or beauty, so they tend to gravitate towards trying to control (manage) the creative process of others, pausing the flow of the river just long enough to take a snapshot, reduce it to a consumable product, 'manage' the product, and extract a profit.
The same relationship seems to crop up between science as a creative problem solving process, and the medical industrial complex. Or governance of, by, and for the people — and the deep-state.
Though I am loathe to give it a name lest it be reduced to just another tribal structure, I guess this underlies why I tend to identify with "pro-social anarchists".
Pro-social in that I think a continual process of empathizing alone is enough to hold families and small groups (Dunbar's number or less) together. Anarchist in that some families and small communities, and all large groups tend to replace empathetic processes with structures stripped of the process of empathizing ... customs, manners, rituals, rules, laws, algorithms. Those who are adept at the latter tend to be unwilling or unable to engage in the creative process of empathy — cluster B personality types (dark triads).
Another example of this is how the irredeemably corrupt attempt to manage others through the WHO. One of their first rules — which has nothing to do with serving others or empathy — was to exempt themselves from legal responsibility for their own behavior. Another is to further game their own self-empowerment through "silence as consent", and use the media to ensure few are even aware of what to raise their voice against.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvlXeszTwe8&t=8s
But rather than the political solution of Jimmy Dore, I tend to waver between the sentiment of Chris Hedges at 7:40, and irrational hope — like the babies and dogs of Mary's latest poem.
Though his methods are questionable, maybe Ted Kaczynski had a point. The current social norm of "progress" is ultimately self-destructive. Personal integrity and identifying with an empathetic flow more fundamental than social norms is our only hope in this forever war of mankind against its own worst nature. But, (sighing) that doesn't pay the rent.
Cheers Kathleen
What a great insight here -and so beautifully and succinctly expressed. I want to copy it and send it along to so many people. You've really honed in on the 'nut' of what we're dealing with - and how it shows up in every domain of life.
"Pro-social in that I think a continual process of empathizing alone is enough to hold families and small groups (Dunbar's number or less) together. Anarchist in that some families and small communities, and all large groups tend to replace empathetic processes with structures stripped of the process of empathizing ... customs, manners, rituals, rules, laws, algorithms. Those who are adept at the latter tend to be unwilling or unable to engage in the creative process of empathy — cluster B personality types (dark triads)."
I agree on the empathy piece and see it as a quality that only shows up when you are keeping your heart, your humanity open, recognizing the underlying truth of our shared vulnerability. Something unseen yet quite real - a substance - flows via empathy. Maybe connected to the suchness or essential content of love/life itself.
It's a quality that in undistorted contexts is fully natural and would be encouraged and developed in a genuinely free world.
I like Chris Hedges and Jimmy Dore, though I don't think hope is ever irrational even if it includes irrationality. If we find ourselves at the doorstep of hopelessness, it's likely an identity that needs to let go.
It's a crazy world and we don't have the zoom-out perspective required to assess what's going on. Bigger and deeper forces at work.
Getting out of our way is part of it, not being sucked in to the current consensus-reality, is part of it. (Hedges) Having enough humility to let go of what we think has to happen and open to what we can't yet imagine.
The empathy piece is like a marker of sanity in an insane world. A foundation of 'real' in the synthetic.
Massive reorientation afoot. I'm expecting a lot of difficulty and I'm expecting a lot of breakthroughs along with surprises on both ends of the spectrum. Deeply hopeful.
A world is coming that will honor empathy over money, connection over systems; Nature will be actually revered and this long-dark period will fade. IDK how that happens, how long it takes, but I know insisting on elevating those remarkable human qualities - creativity and care - is essential to its emergence.
I know without knowing how I know. And, while I don't need to convince anyone else of that - I suspect many of us showed up for this exact time.
(Hedges and Dore included. )
Thank you Steve, sincerely, for the comments and framing that I always find so valuable and open dialog up.
Cheers.
Re below:
"I know without knowing how I know. And, while I don't need to convince anyone else of that - I suspect many of us showed up for this exact time."
Should have added here - not sitting quite right - that 'know' is not the same as certain and is still subject to discovering I was wrong. "Know" as personal stepping stone in that it's essential (even if ultimately incorrect) to move forward. If that makes sense. It's more about trusting those inner impulses in the moment, while still recognizing they are subject to revision down the line.
Hi Kathleen.
Couldn't sleep, but the return to things I've been wrestling with since undergrad left me too exhausted to immediately jump back into the dialog with you. Will get to that a bit later, but I also need to get back to a chat with Mary ... and hoping she finds this particular message because it ties the both of your posts together so nicely. Not anything by me, but by a video that popped up in my feed.
I remember reading "Gödel, Esscher, and Bach" back in those undergrad days ... and though I am no mathematician, I must have gotten ahold of it only within a couple of years after its publication.
In thinking about some of the ideas we've been tossing back and forth, I think one reason I am drawn to processes as more fundamental than structures is because of the explanation laid out by Hofstadter in this interview. It was also about that time I was struggling with the Tractaus, and like you, unconsciously knowing that there was something to the round-about way he reached his "ladder", but without really understanding the language or structures he was using. It's as if Wittgenstein, Gödel, and Hofstadter were making the case for empathetic process by pointing out the inevitable contradictions of any structure.
Anyway, will leave you with the video ... far more sensible than anything I could explain to myself — and I guess it was self-reference which prompted me go on that philosophical hike in our dialogue. I have GOT to learn from you and Mary how to tame, if not master structures, rather than continually harping on about their weakness. Good night, and I hope you enjoy the video as much as I did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYZcHSqqxtg
😴
ps. If you haven't read it and are interested ... https://archive.org/details/douglas-hofstadter-godel-escher-bach-an-eternal-golden-braid. I put it up there with Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" as among my biggest early influences.
steve
That not-sleeping thing is going around I guess.
So enjoyed the video with Hofstadter. And no, have not read the book, thank you for the link.
Loved hearing him say that self-reference is inevitable.
And thought of Clif High's recent reference to 'gritologists' as an entire paradigm on its way out.
I think, of course, it would have to go - the whole notion of attempting to reduce complex reality to 'grit' has been not only a sham, but part of larger attempt to eliminate the mystery and miraculous from life and, importantly (when attempting to control humanity) reduce humans down to their physical parts. If we are just 'parts' then what's the big deal in upgrading them with chips? or swapping them out for new parts to change our gender?
As if.
I will re-listen to the video and plan on checking out the book. I definitely appreciate you and your comments. Hope you slept.
Best.
Ahhhh. Lovely. Thank you, needed that. xo xo
😘 thanks, WH.
Best.
Thank you. I needed this.
I did read your letter to you son, post. Hope that moved in an easier direction Will.
He’s doing his best to be hurtful right now…………it sucks. Apparently he is planning to live in a shed on his girlfriend’s parent’s farm this winter. I hope it’s a cold one. Never thought he’d be the one to turn on me. Absolutely the last thing I ever expected out of him.
People used to ask each other at work; How are you doing today? My answer, whenever appropriate, was to say; Oh man, things are going really good, so, well- I'm a bit anxious about what might come next. I have seen the track record of people versus reality. Embracing discomfort makes for solutions whereas comfort, as a value at any rate, makes for laziness. (Laziness is an issue for me, so I might be trying to remind myself to work on it.)
I can relate to that. Maybe it's being of Irish descent, but lulls in chaos tend to put me on alert for that 'next shoe' to drop.
We do seem to grow under pressure. So plenty of opportunities incoming. :-)
Thanks for comment, Sounder. Best to you.
I find so much peace in your words, Kathleen. You speak for so many of us who are experiencing the deep discomfort of internal change alongside the concomitant transformation of our external world. Of course those two would be related, but it's so easy to forget that -- and your gentle, straightforward description is a calming reminder, a balm to my whole being. Thank you, dear soul. xox
That is so gratifying to read, Mary. Honestly.
Yes, so easy to forget. Then Universe whacks us aside the head and we remember! :-)
Thank you, friend. xoxo
This is so interesting, Kathleen. Please tell us more. I agree with Tereza that you seem to be in touch with something both above and beneath the surface of our everyday lives, and it's become more noticeable of late.
Thank you, Ronnie. I honestly have no idea what will come out of me next, but I'm sincerely grateful you're interested! Very best to you. xo
Thanks, Kathleen. Of course, I still very much appreciate your sense of humor, so don't hold back on that! It might be a good complement to the rest of what's going on. Just sayin'.
👍😊